View Full Version : Why do sleep trained babies STAY sleeping for longer than non-sleep trained babies?
04-09-2003, 01:21 PM
I do not know if this is true or not, but, as an AP mom who co-sleeps and does not believe in CIO, I really don't know.
I think we all have non-AP friends who claim that their babies "sleep through the night" but are these babies really "sleeping through"? Or are they waking up just as many times as my baby wakes up (3-5 times) and crying themselves back to sleep? Or do they figure out after a while that when they go down for the night they are going to be alone for a while so they don't bother trying to get attention anymore? Or are they so well trained that they don't even wake up during the night anymore because there is nothing to wake up for?
I don't believe in CIO because it doesn't feel right. Because I want to do the right thing for my baby (whether or not it FEELS right to me) sometimes, just sometimes, I get these nagging little questions in my head: "Because I have not taught my baby how to sleep, am I the cause of his not getting a good night's sleep? Am I creating too much of a temptation by sleeping next to him with an ALWAYS OPEN sign attached to my boob? Can a baby who wakes up several times throughout the night really be getting good rest?" One argument I hear from CIOers is that a few nights of CIO is a small price for babies to pay when their babies are "rewarded" with the "ability" or "skill" to be able to sleep.
I hope this message isn't taken the wrong way. . . I don't plan to ever let my 7 month old CIO but I have to wonder if my decision is best for my baby.
04-09-2003, 01:30 PM
I have never CIOed but I have found that my baby sleeps better in his own room. I have super sonic baby hearing at night and always get to him with in secions, sometimes he's not even all the way awake yet. When he is in his own room he wakes maybe once a night to eat, when he slept with us he wake 5 or 6 times a night. Looking back I think my DH's snoring was waking him up.
04-09-2003, 02:07 PM
I don't cio, and my first born wasn't a good sleeper (you might know my story about having to be hospitalized for sleep deprivation), but my 4 month old has been sleeping through the night since he was 1 month old.
My husband and I haven't done anything differently, just a different baby.
(I should add that I am up at night, checking on his breathing...I guess it is a mom thing. Even when they are right there next to you.)
04-09-2003, 02:54 PM
I've had three breastfeeding co-sleeping babies.
One slept through at 9 months, one at X Years (we're still waiting and she's almost four) and one at 3 WEEKS!
So, the girls are two years apart and the younger one of the two has been sleeping through for over a year while the older still wakes- different babies, different needs. :)
04-09-2003, 03:03 PM
Mom2jazzygirl, do you know why sleep trained babies sleep more deeply? I have also read that babies who sleep less deeply are at a reduced risk of SIDS. . . but isn't the risk of SIDS also reduced once a baby hits 6 months (or thereabouts)? I'm not saying I don't worry about SIDS but we have none of the risk factors so it's not on the top of my mind, especially now that AJ has reached 7 mos of age. . . Am I being unrealistic?
04-09-2003, 03:14 PM
My 10 month old wakes only once a night (crying/fussing) and I get him and give him a bottle and he goes right back to sleep on his own. He also falls asleep on his own when we initially put him to bed. Now, I didn't breastfeed him past 3 weeks and around 8 weeks I stopped rocking him to sleep and laid him in his crib (actually because HE would fight me when I tried rocking him). His crib was right by our bed until just last month when we moved and he now has his own room. I didn't let him CIO, he just started falling asleep on his own in his crib. I think his being able to get himself to sleep in the beginning is what makes the difference. Until recently he was waking sometimes every couple of hours for a bottle (I know he was truly hungry), but now he seems to be moving closer and closer to sleeping through the night.
Not really sure if I answered the question or made any sense, but I thought I'd just share how Owen sleeps.
04-09-2003, 05:16 PM
In regards to Cooper's nightime routine:
He's sleeptrained alright and NOT by CIO. The answer: He trained himself! From about 8 months old he just started putting himself to sleep.
We no longer co-sleep and I'm sure that this has something to do with why he sleeps better. Almost everyone I know who co-sleeps, has interupted sleeping patterns with the child that sleeps with them.
SIDS is almost non-existant in children over 6 mths old anyway.
In Europe, where co-sleeping is the most popular, their SIDS rate is the lowest in the world. However, they also no longer wrap their babies when putting them to sleep (co-sleeping or crib sleeping, wrapping is no longer the go).
But back to your question: Some babies DO just figure out how to go back to sleep in the middle of the night. Cooper wakes a few times, for comforting or his dummy or whatever, but it's a matter of popping in on him, giving him what he needs & leaving straight away. He is used to this. If I was to stay there with him, he wake up & want more from me.
Because co-sleeping bubs see you there when they wake up, they want something from you. Be it a feed or some cuddles or whatever, they just know that you are there.
Neither can be said to be better than the other, and I don't believe that it's not AP to have a 'sleep trained baby'. I do, he just did it by himself with out cryng.
Sorry that this is so long.... Sleep routines are high on my Agenda
at the moment.... Our day sleeps are a whole other story!!!
04-09-2003, 06:16 PM
DS has slept through the night since 3 months. He has the occassion glitch were he stops sleeping through the night for a day or tow. Right now we are in a big glitch due to teething.
Anyhow...we never use CIO. We did co sleep early on but by 2.5 - 3 months he was in his crib 95% of the time...now its 100%. Our bed is just not too safe for a little one who can move around (rod iron slat headboard).
I am a VERY light sleeper so if he were to wake up and make any noise...I would know.
We also keep a lullaby cd going for him all night....
We were just blessed with a good sleeper...
04-09-2003, 07:41 PM
Both my girls slept in a side-car until they were 8 months old. The first started sleeping thru at 8 months so she went to her own room. The second started sleeping thru at 4 months so she moved in with her sister for one night but I missed her so she came back with us until we moved to a new home when she was 8 months. Now the girls share a room and both sleep well thru the night. The younger one never wakes at night unless ill and the older one jumps into our bed when she has a bad dream.
We've always used a white noise machine with the older b/c she was an easy waker as a baby(noisy dog/neighbors). Now they both rely on it, I think. If I go in and turn it off they'll normally wake within 10 minutes.
I didn't CIO, if they woke at night they were given whatever they needed, they just stopped needing things at night, but at very different ages.
04-09-2003, 08:47 PM
I think sleep trained babies probably wake up just as many times as non-trained babies, they just give up on crying because they have learned that it doesn't do any good. I think "sleeping through the night" means "not crying". I don't think anyone *actually* sleeps through the night. I don't, and I am 35! Although, as the other ladies have pointed out, all babies are different.
Mine sleeps through, (doesn't cry) and we co-sleep. If I put her in her crib, I would be up once an hour, I'm sure.
04-09-2003, 09:20 PM
I have read that sometimes when a mother gets used to CIO, she will stop hearing her baby cry and automatically tune them out :( So maybe all these CIOed babies who are "Sleeping through" are really just being ignored... just a thought.
My DD has always been a good sleeper, by 4 months she wasn't waking to nurse any more, just scootching over and helping herself in her sleep! At 21 months we still co-sleep, but most nights she doesn't need to nurse any more. I just go with the flow, comfort her when she needs it, and am thankful when she doesn't!
04-09-2003, 10:40 PM
I also never let my kids CIO but I don't co-sleep either. And as I type I hear my daughter (almost three) in her room going "Mommeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, my music"
So she doesn't sleep through the night yet, has to sleep with her lullabies on, and I've gotta go.
04-10-2003, 01:09 AM
Oh yeah... I didn't mention earlier... Cooper has Lullaby music going for about an hour into his sleep.
During the day, if the music is still going, & he's awoken from slumber, then I know that he's had way too little sleep for my liking & I also know that we're going to have a crappy afternoon!!
I don't believe in CIO, Controlled Crying or whatever it's called, I'm fortunate I guess to have a relatively good sleeper (at night that is....!!!)
04-10-2003, 07:13 AM
Just throwing in my perspective (I'm not an APer and we did use CIO). I want to second the idea that I don't think anyone truly sleeps through for 10 or 12 hours and so I don't think that sleep-trained babies sleep better than non sleep-trained babies. I think babies that have been sleep trained simply learn that their cries will not be answered at night and so have therefore learned to put themselves back to sleep.
We have a very small house, and dd's bedroom is right next to ours, so I certainly hear and wake up when she wakes. I would say on average she wakes once a night probably twice a week (not crying, I just hear her in there 'talking' and playing with her crib toys) and puts herself back to sleep within a few minutes. Every so often (once every 3 or 4 weeks?) she'll wake up actaully crying and I'll go in and help settle her back down (either by cuddling, feeding, rocking, whatever). IMO, dd has 'learned' to put herself back to sleep when she doesn't have a nighttime need for me.
04-10-2003, 07:54 AM
I posted this question last week- my dd is only left to CIO on rare occasions when I am not home at bed time (work) and my dh puts her to bed. It seemed to me that she slept much longer and deeper after being CIOed, so I was wondering the same thing as you.....It was posted to me that babies who cry intensely for 15, 20 minutes or more are SO exhausted from crying that they drop into a deeper sleep. Crying/screaming is a very tiring activity, and uses so much enegy. That made sense to me, but I am still wondering if she would sleep better if she were alone. However, when I sneak out (we co-sleep) she awakens after a short time and starts screaming. So we can both rest, I continue to co-sleep and nurse on demand. I figure she'll grow up fast enough, and when she is a year, I will try Jay Gordons gentle night weaning program.
04-10-2003, 08:27 AM
These responses are very interesting. As I was reading, I started thinking the answer must be that all babies are different. I think this is part of it.
Then I read your response, Catonmylap. By the way, thanks for directing me to your original post last week (wish I had seen it before!). That helped also. I think your response was interesting because you have used two different methods to get your baby to sleep: CIO and nursing to sleep. This way, we see that her sleep habits actually change depending on how she goes to sleep! Oh, you and I also have something else in common: a new day care situation. It sounds like you have found someone who will care for your baby like you do and that must be such a relief! I have found a similar situation for my little guy too.
I also think there is something to the idea that my baby sees me when he wakes up so he figures, why not just latch on and fall back to sleep peacefully rather than trying it on my own? When I go out of town overnight and he is with my husband, he sleeps much better. I wonder if maybe we could try having him sleep with my husband more often!
Anyway, thanks for all of your personal sleep stories. You all are always so helpful and responsive. Anne
04-10-2003, 11:11 AM
Logan has been sleeping though the night since he was 6 weeks old and we nurse and co sleep. Ocassionaly he will wake at night to nurse but for the most part he sleeps about 8-10 hours.
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