No Yelling House

[Paige]

Yes, Jan... This is directed at you.

Can you talk to us about how you are accomplishing this?

I yell... A lot. :( But it isn't always bad yelling if that helps to defend me any.

In my prayer group yesterday we were all talking about yelling and all of us are convicted right now that we are doing too much of it. And I am finding that Maureen yells right back at me. Double. :(

I want a no yelling house...

[1Dawn]

Paige,
One thing that has helped me is to call them to me but not actually say anything until I have visual eye contact with them. Which with Jon is a double edged sword because he is then near me and if he isn't happy with what I am saying he will stand one foot away from me and argue until he is blue. So with him I have to say my thing and then remove myself.

:hug:
Dawn

[referee_to_3]

:hug: Paige. How old is Maureen again. Every time you mention her I swear she lives at my house disguised as a Drew. I too have been so convicted about this lately. I was even talking to dh about it. One of our last Bible studies was by Creative Correction by Lisa Whelchel, from Facts of Life. It came with a video segment and gave tons of different ideas. Good point Dawn, about having them in front of you. I know alot of our problem, is mommy is too lazy. More :hug: Paige. I'll be watching this one!

[Melanie]

Well, I'm not Jan, but I have my own suggestions. Yelling had just become part of my daily parenting routine, and frankly, it just wasn't that effective. It was so ingrained, though, that I really was finding it very difficult to just stop doing it! Ok, this is going to sound stupid, but it really did help. I started putting an elastic hair thingy around my wrist every morning. It was my "remember to be nice to your kids" tool. As Dawn suggested, I stopped trying to parent from the next room. If I heard something going on that I needed to get involved in, I would walk my lazy butt into their rooms and deal with it rather than yelling across the house. With Anna, it really, really affects her to do the whispering directly into her ear. That didn't work with Kyle because of his sensory issues. I spent some time every night before I went to sleep reminding myself that I didn't become a mother so I could act like a tyrant, but that I truly love my kids more than anyone else on the planet possibly could, and I wouldn't allow those other people to talk to my kids the way I had been. Also, I gave them each a "Star Ticket" up on the fridge, and every time I "caught" them doing something good, they'd get a star. It's amazing when you start looking for the good in them, you see less of the bad. Once I let go of all the negative feelings I was harboring about Kyle's behavior, amazingly his behavior started to improve.

I've worked on this constantly for the last few years, and only right now am I starting to get the hang of it. I still mess up a lot, but it's getting better. I try to have plans in place for dealing with the really stressful times when I know I'm going to melt down (getting ready for school in the morning is pretty typical), so that I won't have to start screaming for my kids to pay attention.

I also found that the less I was yelling, after a while, the better they were listening. So, those are just a few things that have helped me, and I'll be rechecking this thread for other suggestions!

[Amonika]

Melanie - thanks for the suggestions. We are having a tough time with Ava right now - she's only 2 (almost 3) but she's handful. I've felt that I've been yelling at her too much so I've been trying to change as well. I like the idea of whispering in her ear to get her attention.

I am trying the no yelling house but I often find myself slipping. I am watching what Jan is doing though and getting inspiration from her.

[JanB]

Whoops, I missed this until just now!

A lot of what Melanie said applies to this household too. I had been yelling a lot. Like, a lot. Like, it was almost my standard mode of communication with my children. If I saw something that annoyed me or irritated me, like the kids left their Legos on the floor without picking them up AGAIN, I'd just immediately launch into fullscale screaming. I didn't really enjoy it per se, but it was a habit that became, as Melanie said, deeply ingrained.

I decided, when I got the report from Zeke's school last week about his aggressive behavior on the playground, that obviously he must be picking up these aggressive tendencies somehow. Maybe part of it is his personality... but I felt that a lot was probably aggressive behavior being modeled in the home. :( I had to be honest with myself and own up to the fact that just because I got yelled at a lot and "am just fine," that doesn't make it okay to do it to my kids. Or for anyone's kids, really.

So I made a deal with Zeke - I said, we can have a "no yelling house." That means I don't yell at you - and you don't yell at me. He immediately brightened up at the mention of no yelling at him, and said it was a deal. I will admit that I didn't know if I could do it. But we made it through the first day, no problem.

My first big test was the next morning at breakfast. I pleasantly told Zeke and Stazi to hurry and finish their breakfasts so that we could get shoes on and get to the bus on time. Zeke immediately started yelling at me, "MOMMY! DON'T tell me what to DO!" and I immediately and habitually launched into Mean Mom Mode, stuck my face close to his, and started to yell, "EXCUSE ME? WHAT DID YOU--" and then remembered our deal and slapped my hand over my mouth somewhat dramatically. :) Zeke and Stazi both kind of looked like: :eek: Then I said, "It's a no yelling house! I forgot! And Zeke forgot too!" Zeke looked sheepish and said, "I did forget!" and we all laughed.

This is so far off what normal was like in my household previously, I can't even tell you. The whole situation was just totally defused. Then I held on to that memory any time I was tempted to yell - and I have been sorely tempted. The other day in the van on the way home with Stazi from preschool, she was saying some pretty rude things, and I said something to the effect of, "Stazi, we are a no yelling house so I am not going to yell, but your rudeness is making me feel very angry and I really want to yell right now!" Somehow just saying that helped me not scream my head off. And Stazi took me seriously too.

Anyway, it's been several days now and I will tell you, the overall aggression level in this house has VASTLY decreased. Zeke is more relaxed, so is Stazi, and the great thing is that I feel better myself. Not being able to just scream has forced me to find other solutions to problems, and let's be honest here, pretty much any other solution is an improvement over constant yelling.

The surprising part for me is that I'm noticing far less urge to bust out yelling than I did at first. It's like stopping a bad habit. Well, it IS stopping a bad habit. Anyway, I'm glad we tried it.

Oh, and Melanie, the Kazdin book arrived today and I'm reading it! So far, so good. :)

[Paige]

Thanks you all for taking the time to write all his out. I have some more thoughts - no really - justifications :rolleyes: but I have to go out for my useless walk now. But I don't want to lose this one. I want to mull it over some more.

[hedra]

I find that my yelling escalates whenever my kids have outgrown my understanding of where they are/needs, etc. If they grow out from under me, I start parenting louder.

I started out trying for the stern mommy voice as the final voice, but...

And DH gets angry (takes things personally) a lot. He had good luck with just deciding to not go to angry as his default answer (I wish it was that easy for just the getting louder and louder thing!).

We did find that all the strategies listed above worked (getting up, making eye contact or gentle physical contact, whispering when I want to yell, saying 'I'm choosing not to yell because we're trying not to yell, and I still feel angry about X'), though we have not done the No Yelling House (which might be next - we just did 'we're not SUPPOSED to be yelling' house... funny, the wiggle room allows wiggle room!). The overall amount of yell has gone down a LOT since we started working on this (again - it cycles along with the developmental phases - I usually get past it by figuring out what to expect for this age and developing some skills to match). More with the additional 'working on me' strategies, too.

I also found it useful to look at what my own issues and expectations were - often they're overly wrapped up in something I experienced (strict bedtime issues, for example), or they're from me being too serious and too 'parental' - and not being able to have fun or really enjoy it when my kids are goofing (YOU are supposed to be WORKING, dangit!)... last week I figured out that a lot of it comes from the fights my parents used to have, where my step-dad would alternate between demanding we work work work without a break, and him sitting on his behind reading the paper because he already WORKED his shift, thanks, at his job, and he only had to work one shift, because, well, he already worked. Kids 'got' to go to school, and then were supposed to get things done at home (clean, tidy, do laundry, other chores), and not play where it might bother him. My mom used to get so ****** at him for that, and it sparked some fights... which now I carry around, apparently. Whee.

So, sometimes there's something inside that needs handling, too. Just realizing that helped a lot, so when I'm getting wound up because someone is not working when I want them to (modeling my step-dad), I can uncoil the twist just by naming it, and the urge to make everyone jump to my command goes away. Other times, it is modeling my mom getting mad at my dad (and then taking it out on us when it didn't work on him - if he wasn't going to help around the house, then we had to... hmm, issues, anyone?).

Sigh. Wish I'd figured that one out about 10 years ago, when I was still in therapy. We missed that one (it hadn't come up yet...).

Um, so, anyway, maybe something there is helpful, too?

[Melanie]

I also found it useful to look at what my own issues and expectations were - often they're overly wrapped up in something I experienced (strict bedtime issues, for example), or they're from me being too serious and too 'parental' - and not being able to have fun or really enjoy it when my kids are goofing (YOU are supposed to be WORKING, dangit!)...
AMEN! I mean, seriously, what is wrong with the kids laughing and goofing off while they're getting their teeth brushed at night? If the teeth are getting a good brushing, and I'm not having to fuss at them to do it, what difference does it make if they're laughing and joking around when they're doing it? ARGH! It's so hard to stop "parenting" sometimes.

Paige, I am NOT saying you're doing this, but I'll tell you I spent YEARS justifying and saying "I did that. It didn't work" before I started really watching my own behavior with an objective eye. Actually, it was going to therapy with Kyle and having to perform in front of professional eyes that made me see what I was really doing. "Justifying" is a coping mechanism when you have kids like Kyle and Maureen.

[Melanie]

The other day in the van on the way home with Stazi from preschool, she was saying some pretty rude things, and I said something to the effect of, "Stazi, we are a no yelling house so I am not going to yell, but your rudeness is making me feel very angry and I really want to yell right now!" Somehow just saying that helped me not scream my head off. And Stazi took me seriously too.

Ooooh, very good. I know I've managed feats like that in the past, but I've forgotten them. This was a good reminder that I can let them know I'm angry/disappointed without acting angry.

Hope you find the book helpful. We started off with pretty strictly following the guidelines and picking specific behaviors. We've moved away from the details now because there aren't specific things we'd like to change at this point. Now, in maintenance mode, I just have to make sure I continue to focus on the positive and reward it! One of my favorite ideas in his book is that if you're thinking "I shouldn't have to do all this", then you need to get over yourself! I needed to hear that. :lol:

[hedra]

One of my favorite ideas in his book is that if you're thinking "I shouldn't have to do all this", then you need to get over yourself! I needed to hear that. :lol:

Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Hello, parenthood, not easy, lots of effort required! It isn't supposed to be a one-shift job (hence my mom being miffed at my step-dad).

Sigh. I've been trying to learn to enjoy the goofing, by joining them. Balancing that with 'tomorrow will be miserable if we get to bed late' and 'I'm already tired' is tricky for me, still, but I'm getting better at it. Some days, anyway.

[Liz-at-home]

I second what Jan said. I started something similar to what she did (no yelling home) and it has worked wonders! Telling the kids my plan and asking them to join in the ban on yelling has helped us all. We are all much calmer now (I can't remember the last time I had to put my 4 yr old in a time out!). My 5 yr old says we "deleted yelling" and my 4 yr old will tell you that we "put yelling in the trash".

The other day in the van on the way home with Stazi from preschool, she was saying some pretty rude things, and I said something to the effect of, "Stazi, we are a no yelling house so I am not going to yell, but your rudeness is making me feel very angry and I really want to yell right now!" Somehow just saying that helped me not scream my head off. And Stazi took me seriously too.

Jan, this is exactly what I do. Doesn't it work amazingly well? I LOVE this method. Saying I feel like yelling is more satisfying than actually doing so, with the added bonus of feeling good about how I interact with my children.

I think of it this way: when I worked, I would NEVER yell at my boss no matter what. That tells me I can control it when I want to. Yelling is a choice. Certainly, my children are more precious and far more important to me than my old boss so if it is not okay to yell to a boss, why would I ever think it is okay to yell at my children? Now I choose to treat my children with more kindness than anyone else and truly it has helped all of us feel more calm and happy. I can't tell you how much better *everything* is when yelling is removed from the equation.

Good luck to everyone working to stop the yelling :hug: A special hug to Paige and anyone else struggling with it :hug:

[Paige]

Paige, I am NOT saying you're doing this, but I'll tell you I spent YEARS justifying and saying "I did that. It didn't work" before I started really watching my own behavior with an objective eye. Actually, it was going to therapy with Kyle and having to perform in front of professional eyes that made me see what I was really doing. "Justifying" is a coping mechanism when you have kids like Kyle and Maureen.

Oh I am justifying it Melanie! That's the whole freaking problem. The sarcasm was directed at me not you! I sit here some days and say I've done it all... But I know I haven't. I am trying really hard to listen to myself as I bark orders at the kids because I know that if I take a loving tone, they will blow me off. But I am still barking.

Having you all type all this stuff out is really helping me look at what I am doing and what I need to do better.

And I know you want me to get THE BOOK and it's in my shopping cart on Amazon. But Mr. Hickey has prohibited another parenting book to come into the house so I have to sort of sneak it in. :lol:

[1Dawn]

Paige,
I had the same conversation with dh. He then asked me if yelling was working for me? Did I feel good about it? My answer was probably the same as what you are saying. "but they don't listen to me, I can't do all this myself, get up and help me deal with it then......." But at the end of the day I wasn't happy with myself, I wasn't happy with the mom I was and even if they didn't listen and things didn't get done because of it I had to stop for me. They all say I still yell. If you asked them they would say yes. To them now me "yelling" is in reality talking to them upset but not screaming. I can get my point across without the screaming. They don't like it when they disappoint, get caught doing something they shouldn't be doing etc. So when I talk to them in a less than happy way they hear that as yelling. Maybe yelling at their conscience but not their ears. It is an improvement not perfect by any means.

We are all a work in progress Paige. Don't expect yourself to be perfect. :hug:
Dawn

[Melanie]

You know, you should see if it's in the library. That way, if it really doesn't float your boat, you haven't paid for it.

And btw, I got a big fat F yesterday in the no yelling front. Actually, I was more just raising my voice a bit.... ;)