The Red Tent discussion, Part One: My Mothers' Stories

[Caryl]

Here is a thread where we can post our thoughts on Part One: My Mothers' Stories, the first section in the novel, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312195516/ref=nosim/storknet00">The Red Tent</a> by Anita Diamant.

If you have read further than Part One, you may want to post your thoughts on one of the later threads. (You can, of course, still include your thoughts on these chapters in the later threads!)

Looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks! http://www.storknet.com/boards/smile.gif

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[This message has been edited by Caryl (edited 03-01-2002).]

[Jer]

This is definitely my favorite part of the book. I love the vivid descriptions of life in the Red Tent, especially when the sisters are having their various sons. I also love that Diamant elaborates on the forgotten element of early/pre-Judaism: goddess worship. People forget that women were so empowered back then.

I'd add more, but dd just crawled imto my lap and has no intention of leaving. I'll try again later...

http://www.storknet.com/boards/smile.gif

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Jer
proud mommy of Rhiannon Rachel, 12/6/99
and a new little bug, EDD 7/12/02

[Lisa Jo]

I recently read this book but will re-read it to have it very fresh in my mind for discussion.

Honestly, the first few sentences of the book moved me so deeply that they brought tears to my eyes. She begins: We have been lost to each other for so long. My name means nothing to you. My memory is dust. This is not your fault, or mine. The chain connecting mother to daughter was broken and the word passed to the keeping of men, who had no way of knowing.Oh, these words are so meaningful to me - I am tearing up again... For years I have had a yearning to really connect with more women in my life, on a deeper level. I knew I would love this book from the first sentence.

I'll have more to say later. http://www.storknet.com/boards/smile.gif

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Lisa
My two precious kids:
Corey 4/15/93
Natalie 6/21/00 Barefoot beauty in her party dress (http://www.babiesonline.com/imagegallery/gallery_image.asp?p=%2Fbabies%2Fn%2Fnatalieelizabe th%2F700774%2Ejpg)

Moderator, Product Opinion/Review

[This message has been edited by Lisa Jo (edited 03-03-2002).]

[Nancy]

Lisa, I agree with you - those first words grabbed my attention and drew me right into the book.

I enjoyed jumping right into the culture of the time. It was so interesting reading how Laban and Jacob haggled and cursed each other over Rachel's worth, for instance.

But most of all, I love the respect given to women's periods! If only we had a red tent, I think we'd fill it with chocolate, pedicures, good books, all our hobbies, and we'd fix all the world's problems in there. (grin) Because of this book, I've started treating myself to something special each month.

More soon. I'm reading the book for a second time.

Nancy E

[SusanH]

I'll have to reply by memory because the library copy is out right now. I too remember being swept up in this world immediately, right from the first page. It is amazing to me that Diamant created such a rich story from such a tiny fragment of a tale - I went back to the original account in the Bible and it is so brief. What an amazing story teller she is, and what a wonderful work of historical research.

I too long for a community of women. I think that is a large part of why I love posting here - where else can you discuss so many female issues with so many other women? And well-read women, at that. http://www.storknet.com/boards/wink.gif

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Susan, proud mama of Susanna Jane, 2/3/00
Co-moderator of Attachment Parenting and The Waiting Game
Childhood has it's own way of seeing, thinking and feeling, and nothing is more foolish than to try and substitute ours for theirs. - Rousseau

[JenT]

I looked up the story in the Bible too, just to see what it 'really' said. This is an amazing tale, and I loved reading it. I wish we had a way of celebrating our femaleness the way these women did. I felt a sense of sadness and loss at how women are made to feel dirty and smelly and shameful about their periods and such. http://www.storknet.com/boards/frown.gif

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Jen
Grace, 2/3/00
NICU Cubby (http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/nicu/index.html) Mom

[Jer]

I'm getting chills reading this thread! I think as a society we women have gotten so far apart from each other... she's right, we've lost our stories. I love how she puts it: our stories were put in men's hands, and they didn't know what to do with them, so they were distorted. So true!

http://www.storknet.com/boards/smile.gif http://www.storknet.com/boards/smile.gif http://www.storknet.com/boards/smile.gif

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Jer
proud mommy of Rhiannon Rachel, 12/6/99
and a new little bug, EDD 7/12/02

[HunnyBunny]

I'm so glad I found this board -- without it, I doubt I would ever have read this book. Went out and picked it up on my way home last night and have read maybe 50 pages so far, and absolutely love it.

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Laura (35)
DH Dave (40)
#1 edd 10/2/02

[Caryl]

I just finished Part One last night. I am so caught up in the stories of these women already. I feel like Diamant just brought their world directly to me. I expected to feel separate from their experiences, observing them and their culture, seeing their world as very different from ours. It is quite different, but instead I feel like I understand them and sympathize with them, and I feel like she's made me a part of their world, whenever I open the book and start reading.

I have a hard time with the one man/several wives thing. I can't imagine how heart-wrenching and soul-wearying that would be for a woman. (I'm not sure how else to describe it!) But Ruti definitely has it worse. http://www.storknet.com/boards/frown.gif

I loved the birth stories. I was intrigued by that birthing position, where the woman in labor stands on the bricks, and the sisters support her, making a throne for her. I actually tried to do something like that while in labor and pushing, with Pete supporting me, but when I asked the nurse if this was okay, she said, "No!" I asked Pete about this the other night, saying, "I think that WAS the right thing to do. Why did she tell me it was wrong?" He said, "She saw me trying to support you like that, and knew I didn't have the strength for it." Isn't it amazing how we both had different interpretations of that experience, and didn't even know it until now? I wish the nurse would have figured out a way for me to do what I wanted to do... I'm definitely getting a doula if/when I have another baby. But anyway.... back to the book!

Yes, Heather, I'm referring back to the generations chart a lot, to figure out everyone's relationship to each other, and also to try to guess at what will happen next! http://www.storknet.com/boards/wink.gif

I've enjoyed reading this thread, too. We have a pretty cool red tent right here, I think! http://www.storknet.com/boards/biggrin.gif


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Caryl
Mom to Charon, 7/19/99
Co-Moderator for the Reading Circle and Heart of the Home Forums
"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives."
--Annie Dillard

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[This message has been edited by Caryl (edited 03-07-2002).]

[libba]

I LOVE THIS BOOK! So real and it makes me feel like I am right there with them!

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Elizabeth
Mommy to Kaye born 9/24/00
20 pound 10 1/2 0z at 15 mo.
Trying to give her a brother or sister in 2002! 6th cycle ttc- Second cycle of Clomid
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"Babies are such a wonderful way to start people!"

[HunnyBee]

FINALLY, A QUICK READ! I feel a special calling to that area of the world that I cannot explain. maybe it's my ancestry. I am somehow related to queen boadicea 69 AD (sp?) of Egypt. My life quest is get there and kiss the ground and feel the air of the part of the world... but I digress

part one gosh I too long for the closeness of women instead of being at each other's throat a AF time. You know I notice so many women become so catty. to have 3 days of being a queen and closeness of friends. Thanks reading circle for such a great book.

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Sarah
Audra Elizabeth Louise
16 mos (Nov 11)
AD USAF
Colorado Springs, CO

[marnay]

I received my copy and it is wonderful!!!! I think most woman would long for a Red Tent, a quiet time to just rejoice in being a woman.

I can understand the idea behind a well to do man having more than one wife, life was hard back then. Lots of babies died young, and lots of woman died giving birth. More well taken care of wives ment hopefully more healthy children. I don't know if all the wives being sisters would make it easier or harder??

I found it interesting that if a woman gave birth to a girl, she was allowed an extra month in the Red Tent.

Such a neat book!



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Naydene
Delaney 4/21/99
EDD #2 9/4/02

Delaney's Doggies! (http://www.geocities.com/marnaymastiffs/index.htm)
marnay1@earthlink.net

[Sallly]

I am totally enjoying this book! It is one of those well written stories where you are so wrapped up in the characters that you acutally "become" them. I have the desire to ask dh, "do you know how Rachel is doing?" I just really feel like I am there with them in their Red Tent. I also find it fascinating how there are so many wives to one man. It is really hard to fathom how the jealousy and love between the women made them stronger together. The allusions to the shepard boys in the fields and Jacob in the field enjoying himself were a bit too much for me. I really don't know why. I guess I just figured that hey, this is set in Bibical times, people just didn't do that back then! LOL! Anyways, I really feel like Diamont did her research and was successful in bringing to life the world these people once lived in.

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Sally 19
dh=Chris 20
dd=Morgan Elizabeth~12/06/00
**I kiss you and kiss you,
With arms round my own,
Ah, how shall I miss you,
When, dear, you have grown
-William Butler Yates
E-Mail Me (http://www.Sallly@storknetmail.com)

[Nancy]

I just came back to read all the replies so far and have to chime in that this thread is great. What a connection we're all making!

How many of you have daughters? I have a grown daughter and I talk about her, womanhood, periods, menopause, and THE RED TENT in my journal on Exploring Womanhood. (http://www.exploringwomanhood.com) I'm wondering if this book has affected you regarding how you will discuss menstruation with your daughters? Will you be more inclined to celebrate it now?
Nancy E

[This message has been edited by Nancy E (edited 03-09-2002).]

[SusanH]

I know that this is far in my future, but, yes, Nancy, I definitely want to celebrate when Susy hits puberty! I remember getting my first period while on vacation with my sister, Aunt and mother, which should have been my very own red tent but it wasn't. They were all very calm and just showed me how to deal with it and that was that. I was sooo excited, I had been yearning to get my first period and would have been thrilled by a celebration! So I want to provide something special for my daughters when they reach that all-important milestone. I just don't know what it will be. http://www.storknet.com/boards/confused.gif

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Susan, proud mama of Susanna Jane, 2/3/00
Co-moderator of Attachment Parenting and The Waiting Game
Childhood has it's own way of seeing, thinking and feeling, and nothing is more foolish than to try and substitute ours for theirs. - Rousseau

[Nancy]

Susan, how about if we think of ways to celebrate? Should we start a new thread? Yes? (grin) Okay, off to do that.

Nancy E

[LaraK]

Ok - I've been anxiously awaiting my book from amazon and it's here http://www.storknet.com/boards/biggrin.gif

So far I've just opened it up and I'm committing the generations page to memory. This thread has been just amazing, I can't wait to contribute http://www.storknet.com/boards/smile.gif

I do have a daughter myself and I'd love to celebrate her milestones of womanhood and help create a feeling of our own generational stories of the women in our family.

lkf

[firsttimer]

This book is wonderful so far!

In the red tent we knew that death was the shadow of birth, the price women pay for the honor of giving life.


I am glad Diamant is realistic about infants and even mothers dying. Our society, for the most part, expects infants and mothers to live; how different reality was for these women!! I am surprised at the powerful bond I feel to the women in the book, especially the ones that have lost a child, which is the majority.

On a brighter note, I am reminded of a friend of my mother's that takes off work the first day of AF every month for a day of pampering.

BTW, anyone else notice in college that eventually your roommate's cycles started to be at the same time as yours? Isn't it interesting how scents etc cause that to happen?

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Lynn

My Sugarplum,
Alaina 8/23/01
born at 36 weeks 4 days
7 lbs 1.6 oz 19 inches long
(PFO and PAC) (PDA which closed by one week)

My perfect baby boy,
Brycen Kurtis
9/1/00-9/7/00 undetected heart defect
In God's loving hands.
We miss you and love you.

[Cait]

Great book so far!

Does anyone know how historically accurate this book is supposed to be? I was under the impression that other than the fact that Jacob had four wives that were Rachel, Leah, Zilpah and Bilhah this book was pretty fictionalized based on what COULD have happened. Am I wrong?

I love imagining the types of relationships Jacob has w/each of his wives. It seems like he has the greatest connection w/Leah, but acts like Rachel his is favorite. What do you all think?

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DH Joe
DD Madeleine Sinclaire 8-3-00
EDD 10-7-02

www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/caitolson (http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/caitolson)

[firsttimer]

I'm presuming she did research so that much of the day to day living descriptions are probably close to reality. As far as the exact events, those are what could have happened.

I'm sure, for example, the number of miscarriages, deaths etc are just in line with probable mortality rates of the time, not how many each woman actually had. I'm sure there's no written record of that. Of course I could be totally wrong in my presumptions! http://www.storknet.com/boards/wink.gif

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Lynn

My Sugarplum,
Alaina 8/23/01
born at 36 weeks 4 days
7 lbs 1.6 oz 19 inches long
(PFO and PAC) (PDA which closed by one week)

My perfect baby boy,
Brycen Kurtis
9/1/00-9/7/00 undetected heart defect
In God's loving hands.
We miss you and love you.

[This message has been edited by firsttimer (edited 03-13-2002).]

[firsttimer]

BTW, I agree with what you're saying about Jacob's feelings toward Leah and Rachel. It's interesting how he treats them so differently, but he obviously cares deeply for both.



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Lynn

My Sugarplum,
Alaina 8/23/01
born at 36 weeks 4 days
7 lbs 1.6 oz 19 inches long
(PFO and PAC) (PDA which closed by one week)

My perfect baby boy,
Brycen Kurtis
9/1/00-9/7/00 undetected heart defect
In God's loving hands.
We miss you and love you.

[Paige]

Ok... All caught up!

This is the third time I have read this book and I love it more each time. The characters are so real to me. It is always talked about how little respect and importance is given to women of that time, but think about it - if you gave birth to a birth-giver than you got an extra month in the Red Tent. And what about the fact that all women disappear for one week at the same time. Half of the community gone and yet you don't hear about men protesting and insisting on changing their ways.

Another thing I find so fascinating is the religious aspect. Jacob comes from a completely different religious background and yet there does not seem to be any tension surrounding the different forms of worship. I love the references to the "God of our Fathers" and "El" and the glimpses at the sons' temperments knowing that they grow into the 12 Tribes. I love knowing that Levi could be a brat and his tribe becomes a tribe of Priests (hope for my son?) Having done a very in depth study of Genesis and doing a study this year of the Life of Moses really makes the Red Tent so real for me.

I love the honor that is given to women and families and makes me wish I had listen more to those stories told by my mother and grandmother so that I could pass them on in turn.

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Mom to Stuart (11), Caitlyn (9) and Baby Brigid (2)
Mom to one lost baby(12/1/01)

Moderator ~ Tots thru Teens
Moderator ~ BB Jan-Jun 2000
Co-Moderator ~ Community Support

...to know even one other life has breathed because you have lived. This is to have succeeded! ~Ralph Waldo Emerson~

Trinity House (http://www.picturetrail.com/trinityhouse)

[LaraK]

ok, big shock that I'm coming in late to the discussion http://www.storknet.com/boards/wink.gif

I just finished part I last night. I can't even put into words how caught up in this book I am http://www.storknet.com/boards/biggrin.gif Thank you, THANK you for giving me the push to read this book.

Often times when I get introduced to a bunch of characters right away there are one or two that I feel connected with and not the others but I feel a kinship with ALL of them.

I will have more to say - I'm being called into a meeting.

lkf

[LaraK]

ok, something that struck me early on is the dynamic between the sisters in the first story. They are together, they are close but they are also selfish and it makes me think closely to how we all react to one another. Whether you're related or not, whether you would sacrifice for someone else or not it still boils down to self-serving your own interests.

I felt this very accurately in the first part of the stories.

[Caryl]

I just re-read this thread. Such interesting thoughts here!

Sarah (HunnyBee), I will be hoping you get a chance to visit Egypt someday. http://www.storknet.com/boards/smile.gif

Lynn (firsttimer), what a neat story about the woman you know who takes off from work the first day of her period!

Lara, yes, I felt that connection to all of the women in the book, too. Wasn't that amazing? I felt like I knew each of them, and I loved them all.

Caryl