need ideas on discipline

[choffee]

i am literally sitting here in tears right now because i don't know what to do with my two year old.

i need ideas on how to discipline her - redirection doesn't work anymore. talking to her doesn't seem to do any good (she just nods her head and says "yah!") - and she can't tell me why she's acting the way she is because she's severely speech delayed.

time outs send me into tears. if she knows she's about to get a time out, she becomes extremely combative. she flails her arms, kicks her legs and starts screaming bloody murder. she doesn't care who or what gets in her way.

please help...there are some behaviours that *have* to change, and i don't know how to help her change them.

[Mellymama]

I am sorry you are dealing with this, and sorry I don't have any advice except to say get this book: The Discipline Book By Dr. Sears. It should be very helpful.

[SusanH]

You have my sympathies. I could have written your post when Susy was age two. And age three. And age four.

For us, time outs were really not the answer. All they did was inflame the situation further, causing the same spiral of horrible behavior you described. What did work, worked slowly. Constant repetition. Choosing one battle at a time. Clear and consistant consequences, such as "if you bite, you can't play" or "if you run away from me, you can't walk in the store." We tried to keep the consequences as closely related to the misbehavior as possible to make them easier to understand, and for a two year old, I think it's essential to have the consequence be immediate. Role playing and practicing can also be helpful - pretend to go shopping and work on how you should act in the store, for example. Susy was slow to talk, also, and I found it very helpful to verbalize for her. Some of her behavior issues resolved themselves when she began being able to express herself better.

Personally, I find Dr. Sears to be not very helpful when dealing with a high-needs, intense child. He tends to say, "If you are AP, this won't be a problem!" with a big beaming grin, then move onto the next topic. Drives me crazy. I did find some good ideas in Elizabeth Pantley's book Kid Cooperation and even more help in Raising Your Spirited Child. RYSC is great for helping you feel less at fault and less alone when you see other people's children behaving beautifully while yours is screaming hysterically because you put the left shoe on first instead of the right shoe.

If you tell us what behaviors are currently at the top of your "this has to change" list, maybe someone can give you some suggestions for dealing with them.

[Mellymama]

Our 3 year old dd is a high needs and intense child, and we have found Dr. Sears helpful. Possibly because she is very advanced in her speech, and we are lucky to not have that hurdle, possibly because everyone is different.
I do know what SusanH means though about Sears saying "if you are Ap, then this should work!"
Hope you can find something that works for you.

[clover]

Hey girl! I'm sorry to hear that em is being this way. She definitely has a strong personality!

I recently bought The Happiest Toddler on the Block (from Milkworks) and haven't had time to read much of it. Would you like to borrow it?

[choffee]

thanks for the suggestions so far :). i re-read my original post and realized that i probably should have mentioned specifics about behaviors (note to self: wait to post until recovered from meltdown). i'm not even sure if i can put into words what needs to be changed. i think the main problem is that em tends to get "frenzied" when i tell her no. whatever she is doing suddenly becomes ten times more animated or exaggerated. if she's running away from me, she'll run faster. if she's smothering her brother with love, she'll start jumping up and down and slapping him in the head. if she's getting into something she's not supposed to have, she'll fling everything around the house. etc etc etc...

i know that we've all been under a tremendous amount of stress in our house lately. i also know that it's been an adjustment to have a new baby in the house - especially one that's sick. however, this has always been going on - it's just much worse now that em's getting older. i also know that a lot of this just has to do with being 2 - but i've taken care of other 2 year olds before. mine is definitely "more". add into this her sudden strike on anything that resembles personal hygeine, and her lack of communication skills...and, well, i'm at the end of my rope :(.

i have read dr. sear's discipline book - actually, i tried to read it, but i found what susan said to be right on with em. everything was presented in a way that made me feel like a) i have an idiot for a child, b) my child is more out-of-control than anyone could ever handle and c) i'm a bad parent that made my child an out-of-contral idiot. i will look for those other books that susan mentioned. hopefully they will be helpful.

clover ~ i would love to borrow that book. i'm going to be passing through on my way home from children's on wednesday - think we could work something out for me to pick it up?

[clover]

I've got a crazy-busy day on Wednesday but my husband will be home. If nothing else, I can leave it on or front step or something.

Fron what I gather about the book, it suggests talking to the toddler in very simple (almost caveman like) words and phrases. Use these words to let the toddler know that you understand her position.....for instance, "Run Run Fun Fun" in a loud and goofy voice. This shows her that you understand that she wants to run and why she wants to run. Then, once you have her attention, it is easier to give her alternatives. It is broken down by ages 1 through 4.

Be in touch!

[djk42]

Have you read The Fussy Baby and High Needs Child? It is better about discipline.

#1- How is your "me" time lately? Are you getting enough rest and time alone to handle the added stress? Baby will hit a growth spurt soon, and you need to be prepared for it, so take care of yourself. :)
#2- Are you spending one on one time with your toddler? Do you think she is reacting to the baby with these actions, or is it simply her personality? My spirited 4 yr old still needs me to step back and spend time with just her on a daily basis, at least if I want my house standing tomorrow. I don't think she sets out to "make me pay" but it sure feels that way! She gets highly jealous of "the baby" (who is now two) in ways that her brother never did with her. The best way to prevent outbursts is to schedule dates with her (she gets to go to the store with me after dinner) and playtimes. Adapt for the age of course- a story may be enough if you are alone in the room with her on your lap.

HANG IN THERE! (My high needs husband wants me to come to bed.. I'll check back later maybe.) :)

[ever-blessed]

have you considered using some simple sign langauge and/or pictures to help your dd express herself?

i agree to put words to her feelings, so she at least knows that you 'get it' even if you aren't giving her what she wants. you could look at children's books of emotions (close-up pictures of their faces with different expressions) and then maybe talk in simple terms with her about how she may be feeling.

this is going to sound obvious, and i don't mean it to... how does you dd react to words other than 'no'- would her response be more favourable with a simple choice, 'hold mommy's hand or ride in a cart' ? i suspect you've tried this, and she likely doesn't care for it, either. with my dd, i am really trying to use 'no' less (it pushes her buttons) and to find more constructive ways to approach her discipline.

sorry if this wasn't helpful. i feel for you! can you take some time out for a nice bath or something, to recoup a bit????

[choffee]

have you considered using some simple sign langauge and/or pictures to help your dd express herself?
we do use some signs - i'll ask dd's therapist at her next session for more signs that i can use. we do have a book that we read sometimes called "baby faces". it's a flip-book that has a photo of a baby experiencing an emotion on each page. dd doesn't seem to quite get it, though.

this is going to sound obvious, and i don't mean it to... how does you dd react to words other than 'no'- would her response be more favourable with a simple choice, 'hold mommy's hand or ride in a cart' ? i suspect you've tried this, and she likely doesn't care for it, either. with my dd, i am really trying to use 'no' less (it pushes her buttons) and to find more constructive ways to approach her discipline.
we don't use the word "no" that often in our house. we prefer terms like, "that's dangerous", "that's unacceptable", "that hurts", etc. no is reserved for times when i don't have the time to think out why i'm telling her no ;) - and it's always followed by an explanation of why. which is then (usually) followed by a meltdown.
we also give dd a lot of choices. i know that having a choice makes her feel much more in control of the situation - which makes her happier and keeps me more sane.

#2- Are you spending one on one time with your toddler? Do you think she is reacting to the baby with these actions, or is it simply her personality? My spirited 4 yr old still needs me to step back and spend time with just her on a daily basis, at least if I want my house standing tomorrow.
i try to give her one-on-one time, but it's really hard to find the time. my dh works 65 hours a week, plus he's going to school full-time. quite honestly, i sometimes wonder how i fit sleep into my schedule. i know this is something i need to work on. i don't think jealousy is causing this, as she's always been this way. as clover said, she's got a strong personality.

I don't think she sets out to "make me pay" but it sure feels that way!
oh, i know this feeling too well LOL :)

[hedra]

You might also find it useful to do self-assessment of how YOU feel when she reacts that way. Kids are geniuses at emotional communication, and before words, they get you to understand their feelings by making YOU feel that way. They'll quickly learn to do whatever it takes to elicit from you what they're feeling. So if you feel like she's pushing your buttons, SHE feels like YOU are pushing HER buttons. If you feel powerless, scared, and alone, that's almost certainly how she feels. Getting down to the underlying emotions and solving THOSE issues helps most for us, though I'll admit I don't have nearly as intense a child as you do.

And part of it is just the age, I'm afraid. The 'you say No, I say YES YES YES, nyah-nyah, you can't CATCH ME! So THERE!' thing is just being two.

Other tips: for expressive (especially physically expressive) children, giving an alternative that is as visceral and exciting as what they wanted to do is good. If, for example, over-hugging the baby is a no-no, then you have to provide another alternative that is as powerful (both physically and emotionally) as doing the no-no. You can gradually wean them down to less visceral reactions, but for example, when Gabe started hitting in anger, saying 'be gentle' just infuriated him - he WANTED to hit! Hello, mom, being gentle does not express what I FEEL! So we encouraged him to come up with alternatives to that reaction when he felt angry - stomping was what worked for him.

And also, the boring reaction: The more boring your discipline is, the more powerful it becomes at this age. They'll do anything for a reaction, so if you only give nice enthusiastic, emotionally-deep, fully-engaged reactions to positive behavior, then you get a lot more positive behavior. Being boring, no eye contact, immediate enforcement but with flat vocal tone, no excitement, no anger, no ANYTHING, for about 3 days straight, has killed off EVERY negative behavior either of our kids has tried. The hard part is doing it for three days in a row (sigh), but even a few instances will suppress the behavior a lot. The more you are frustrated, annoyed, angry, make eye contact, get physically moving, get agitated, change your vocal tone, etc., the MORE they want to do those behaviors. My mom called this the 'any light is a light, I don't care what color' reaction. She had 'red light' reactions (punitive), and 'green light' reactions (positive), and she discovered that we really didn't seem to care which COLOR, as long as we got her attention... so she started suppressing the degree of her reaction (how much light) on the negatives, and increasing the activity and expressiveness on positives. Worked really well on us (and that's where I learned it from). It is simple in theory, requires self-discipline and a degree of centeredness (or quick thinking) to implement, but well, all the good stuff requires those, too! And it takes practice. I'm still practicing. A lot. Mostly after forgetting to do it for days on end... :o

Good luck!

[Laurisa]

Sounds pretty typical for two. I have tried everything also. J either ignores us or thinks it is a game.

The best we have come up with so far is one of us keeping him occupied. While the other takes a break or gets some chores done. The other thing that kind of works is to give him little jobs to do. As soon as he finishes one I give him another.